Does God Love Everyone? # 2
John 3:16
Turning now to John 3:16, it should be evident from the passages just quoted that this verse will not bear the construction usually put upon it. "God so loved the world." Many suppose that this means the entire human race. But "the entire human race" includes all mankind from Adam until the close of earth's history; it reaches backward as well as forward! Consider, then, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Saviour came to the earth, lived here "having no hope and without God in the world," and therefore passed out into an eternity of woe. if God "loved" them, where is the slightest proof thereof? Scripture declares "Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel until after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways" (Acts 14:16). Scripture declares: "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Rom. 1:28). It Israel God said, "You only have I known of all the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2). In view of these plain passages, who will be so foolish as to insist that God in the past loved all mankind! The same applies with equal force to the future. Read through the book of Revelation, noting especially chapters 8 to 19, where we have described the judgments which will be poured out from Heaven on this earth.
Read of the fearful woes, the frightful plagues, the vials of God's wrath, which shall be emptied on the wicked. Finally, read the twentieth chapter of the Revelation, the Great White Throne judgment, and see if you can discover there the slightest trace of love. But the objection comes back to John 3:16 and says, "World means world." True, but we have shown that "the world" does not mean the whole human family. The fact is that "the world" is used in a general way. When the brethren of Christ said, "Show Yourself to the world" (John 7:4), did they mean "Show Yourself to all mankind"? When the Pharisees said, "Behold, the world is gone after him" (John 12:19), did they mean that all the human family were flocking after Him? When the apostle wrote, "Your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world" (Romans 1:8), did he mean that the faith of the saints at Rome was the subject of conversation by every man, woman, and child on earth? When Revelation 13:3 informs us that "all the world wondered after the beast," are we to understand that there will be no exceptions? These, and other passages which might be quoted, show that the term "the world" often has a relative, rather than an absolute, force. Now the first thing to note in connection with John 3:16 is that our Lord was there speaking to Nicodemus, a man who believed that God's mercies were confined to his own nation. Christ there announced that God's love in giving His Son had a larger object in view - that it flowed beyond the boundary of Palestine, reaching out to "regions beyond." In other words, this was Christ's announcement that God had a purpose of grace toward Gentiles as well as Jews. "God so loved the world," then, signifies God's love is international in its scope. But does this mean that God loves every individual among the Gentiles?
Not necessarily, for as we have seen, the term"world" is general rather than specific, relative rather than absolute. The term "world" in itself is not conclusive. To ascertain who the objects of God's love are, other passages where His love is mentioned must be consulted. in 2 Peter 2:5, we read of "the world of the ungodly." If then, there is a world of the ungodly; there must also be a world of the godly. It is the latter who are in view in the passages we shall now briefly consider. "For the bread of God is he which comes down from Heaven, and gives life unto the world" (John 6:33). Now mark it well, Christ did not say, "offers life unto the world," but "gives." What is the difference between the two terms? This: a thing which if "offered" may be refused, but a thing "given" necessarily implies its acceptance. If it is not accepted, it is not "given"; it is simply offered. Here, then is a Scripture that positively states Christ gives life (spiritual, eternal life) "unto the world." Now He does not give eternal life to the "world of the ungodly" for they will not have it; they do not want it. Hence, we are obliged to understand the reference in John 6:33 as being to "the world of the godly," that is, God's own people.
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 3)
Saturday, September 21, 2019
Evangelical Obedience # 5
Evangelical Obedience # 5
When the Lord declared concerning David His servant that "he kept My commandments and My statutes" (1 Kings 11:34), He was speaking relatively and not absolutely. "The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delights in His way" (Psalm 37:23), notwithstanding that he often stumbles, yes, falls, in the same. There are but two classes of people in the sight of God: "the children of disobedience," and "obedient children" (1 Pet. 1:14) - yet many a regenerate soul is fearful of classifying himself with the latter. But he ought not - his scruples are due to an insufficiently enlightened conscience.
When the Lord Jesus said to the Father of those whom He had given Him, "They have kept your word" (John 17:6), surely, it is obvious that He was not affirming that their obedience was perfect. "Evangelical keeping is filial and sincere obedience. Those imperfections, Christ pardons, when He looks back and sees many errors and defects in the life - as long as we bewail sin, seek remission, and strive to attain perfection. All the commandments are accounted kept when that which is not done is pardoned (Thomas Manton). When the heart beats true to Him - Christ makes full allowance for our frailties.
With the Word of God in his hands, there is no excuse for anyone who has, by divine grace, been brought to hate sin and love God - to stumble over the point we are now treating of. David had many failings - and some of a gross and grievous nature - yet he hesitated not to say unto God himself: "I have kept your precepts." (Psalm 119:56). In what sense had he done so? Inwardly - in spirit, in holy resolution, and earnest endeavor. Outwardly, too - in the general current of his life. And wherein he failed - he deeply repented and obtained forgiveness from God. Christ will yet say to each one who has improved the talents entrusted to him, "Well done, good and faithful servant" - yet that is far from implying that therein he was without fault or failure.
When Paul prayed for the Hebrew saints that God would make them "perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in His sight," he was making request for those indwelt by sin, as his added acceptable "through Jesus Christ" (Heb. 13:21) necessarily implied. "And whatever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments" (1 John 3:22) would have no comfort for us, if God accepted only sinless obedience.
"Man looks on the outward appearance - but the Lord looks on the heart" (1 Sam. 16:7). Those words are capable of more than one legitimate application - but they are peculiarly pertinent here. True, God is very far from being indifferent to the substance of our obedience - yet the spirit in which it is performed is what He notices first. Duties are not distinguished by their external form - but by their internal frame - one may perform the same duty from fear or compulsion, which another does freely and out of love. "Waters may have the same appearance - yet one be sweet; and the other, brackish. Two apples may have the same color - yet one may be a crab; and the other, of a delightful relish. We must look to the Rule that the matter of our actions are suited to it; otherwise, we may commit gross wickedness, as those did who thought that they did God service by killing His righteous servants (John 16:2). We must look also to the face of our hearts; otherwise, we may be guilty of gross hypocrisy" (Stephen Charnock). The Pharisees kept the Sabbath with great strictness - yet their outward conformity unto that divine Law was far from being acceptable in God's sight.
"The Lord weighs the spirits" (Prov. 16:2). That has a meaning which should make each of us tremble - yet it should also be of great comfort to the regenerate, and evoke thanksgiving. If, on the one hand, the omniscient One cannot be imposed upon by the most pious appearance and utterances of the hypocrite; yet on the other hand, He knows those "who desire to fear His name" (Neh. 1:11), even though some of their actions proceed from a contrary principle. All the intentions and motives of our hearts are naked and open before the eyes of Him with whom we have to do; and full consideration is given thereto as God estimates our performances. Was not this very truth both the comfort and confidence of erring Peter when he declared to his Master: "Lord, you know all things - you know that (contrary to appearances) I (really and truly) love you!" (John 21:17). "If you, Lord, should mark iniquities (the shortcomings of Your full and righteous demands) - then who shall stand?" (Psalm 130:30). Not one of His people. But, as the next verse goes on to assure us: "But there is forgiveness with You - that You may be feared" (verse 4) - yes, held in awe, and not trifled with. Blessed balance of truth!
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 6)
When the Lord declared concerning David His servant that "he kept My commandments and My statutes" (1 Kings 11:34), He was speaking relatively and not absolutely. "The steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord: and he delights in His way" (Psalm 37:23), notwithstanding that he often stumbles, yes, falls, in the same. There are but two classes of people in the sight of God: "the children of disobedience," and "obedient children" (1 Pet. 1:14) - yet many a regenerate soul is fearful of classifying himself with the latter. But he ought not - his scruples are due to an insufficiently enlightened conscience.
When the Lord Jesus said to the Father of those whom He had given Him, "They have kept your word" (John 17:6), surely, it is obvious that He was not affirming that their obedience was perfect. "Evangelical keeping is filial and sincere obedience. Those imperfections, Christ pardons, when He looks back and sees many errors and defects in the life - as long as we bewail sin, seek remission, and strive to attain perfection. All the commandments are accounted kept when that which is not done is pardoned (Thomas Manton). When the heart beats true to Him - Christ makes full allowance for our frailties.
With the Word of God in his hands, there is no excuse for anyone who has, by divine grace, been brought to hate sin and love God - to stumble over the point we are now treating of. David had many failings - and some of a gross and grievous nature - yet he hesitated not to say unto God himself: "I have kept your precepts." (Psalm 119:56). In what sense had he done so? Inwardly - in spirit, in holy resolution, and earnest endeavor. Outwardly, too - in the general current of his life. And wherein he failed - he deeply repented and obtained forgiveness from God. Christ will yet say to each one who has improved the talents entrusted to him, "Well done, good and faithful servant" - yet that is far from implying that therein he was without fault or failure.
When Paul prayed for the Hebrew saints that God would make them "perfect in every good work to do His will, working in you that which is well pleasing in His sight," he was making request for those indwelt by sin, as his added acceptable "through Jesus Christ" (Heb. 13:21) necessarily implied. "And whatever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments" (1 John 3:22) would have no comfort for us, if God accepted only sinless obedience.
"Man looks on the outward appearance - but the Lord looks on the heart" (1 Sam. 16:7). Those words are capable of more than one legitimate application - but they are peculiarly pertinent here. True, God is very far from being indifferent to the substance of our obedience - yet the spirit in which it is performed is what He notices first. Duties are not distinguished by their external form - but by their internal frame - one may perform the same duty from fear or compulsion, which another does freely and out of love. "Waters may have the same appearance - yet one be sweet; and the other, brackish. Two apples may have the same color - yet one may be a crab; and the other, of a delightful relish. We must look to the Rule that the matter of our actions are suited to it; otherwise, we may commit gross wickedness, as those did who thought that they did God service by killing His righteous servants (John 16:2). We must look also to the face of our hearts; otherwise, we may be guilty of gross hypocrisy" (Stephen Charnock). The Pharisees kept the Sabbath with great strictness - yet their outward conformity unto that divine Law was far from being acceptable in God's sight.
"The Lord weighs the spirits" (Prov. 16:2). That has a meaning which should make each of us tremble - yet it should also be of great comfort to the regenerate, and evoke thanksgiving. If, on the one hand, the omniscient One cannot be imposed upon by the most pious appearance and utterances of the hypocrite; yet on the other hand, He knows those "who desire to fear His name" (Neh. 1:11), even though some of their actions proceed from a contrary principle. All the intentions and motives of our hearts are naked and open before the eyes of Him with whom we have to do; and full consideration is given thereto as God estimates our performances. Was not this very truth both the comfort and confidence of erring Peter when he declared to his Master: "Lord, you know all things - you know that (contrary to appearances) I (really and truly) love you!" (John 21:17). "If you, Lord, should mark iniquities (the shortcomings of Your full and righteous demands) - then who shall stand?" (Psalm 130:30). Not one of His people. But, as the next verse goes on to assure us: "But there is forgiveness with You - that You may be feared" (verse 4) - yes, held in awe, and not trifled with. Blessed balance of truth!
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 6)
Saturday, September 14, 2019
Does God Love Everyone? # 1
[A very interesting and thoughtful sermon!! A must read!!]
Does God Love Everyone? # 1
1. John 3:16
2. 2 Peter 3:9
3. The Holy Spirit Will Not Be Resisted
4. Why Preach to Every Creature?
One of the most popular beliefs of the day is that God loves everybody, and the very fact that it is so popular with all classes ought to be enough to arouse the suspicions of those who are subject to the Word of Truth. God's love toward all His creatures is the fundamental and favorite tenet of Universalists, Unitarians, and Theosophists, Christian Scientists, Spiritualists, Russellites, etc. No matter how a man may live in open defiance of Heaven, with no concern whatever for his soul's eternal interests, still less for God's glory, dying perhaps with an oath on his lips - notwithstanding, God loves him, we are told. So widely has this dogma been proclaimed, and so comforting is it to the heart which is at enmity with God - we have little hope of convincing many of their error. That God loves everybody is, we may say, quite a modern belief. The writings of the church fathers, the Reformers, or the Puritans will (we believe) be searched in vain for any such concept. Perhaps the late D. L. Moody - captivated by Drummond's The Great Thing in the World - did more than anyone else in the last century to popularize this concept. It has been customary to say God loves the sinner though He hates his sin. But that is a meaningless distinction. What is there in a sinner but sin? Is it not true that his "whole head is sick" and his "whole heart faint," and that "from the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness" in him? (Isaiah 1:5-6). Is it true that God loves the one who is despising and rejecting His blessed Son? God is Light as well as Love, and therefore His love must be a holy love.
To tell the Christ-rejecter that God loves him is to cauterize his conscience, as well as to afford him a sense of security in his sins. The fact is, the love of God is a truth for the saints only, and to present it to the enemies of God is to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs (Matt. 15:26). With the exception of John 3:16, not once in the four Gospels do we read of the Lord Jesus, the perfect teacher, telling sinners that God loves them! In the book of Acts, which records the evangelistic labors and messages of the apostles, God's love is never referred to at all! But when we come to the Epistles, which are addressed to the saints, we have a full presentation of this precious truth: God's love for His own. Let us seek to rightly divide the Word of God and then we shall not be found taking truths which are addressed to believers and misapplying them to unbelievers. That which sinners need to have brought before them is the ineffable holiness, the exacting righteousness, the inflexible justice, and the terrible wrath of God.
Risking the danger of being misunderstood, let us say - and we wish we could say it to every evangelist and preacher in the country - there is far too much presenting of Christ to sinners today, and far too little showing sinners their need of Christ, that is, their absolutely ruined and lost condition, their imminent and awful danger of suffering the wrath to come, the fearful guilt resting upon them in the sight of God. To present Christ to those who have never been shown their need of Him, seems to us to be guilty of casting pearls before swine (Matt. 7:6). If it be true that God loves every member of the human family, then why did our Lord tell His disciples, "He who has My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves Me: and he who loves Me shall be loved of My Father...If a man love me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him" (John 14:21, 23)? Why say, "He that loves Me shall be loved of My Father," if the Father loves everybody?? The same limitation is found in Prov. 8:17: "I love them that love Me."
Again we read, "You hate all workers of iniquity" - not merely the works of iniquity. Here then is a flat repudiation of present teaching that God hates sin but loves the sinner: Scripture says, "You hate all workers of iniquity" (Psalm 5:5)! "God is angry with the wicked every day" (Psalm 7:11). "He who believes not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God" - not "shall abide," but even now - "abides on him" (John 3:36). Can God "love" the one on whom His "wrath" abides? Again, is it not evident that the words, "The love of God which is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:39), mark a limitation, both in the sphere and objects, of His love? Again, is it not plain from the words, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Romans 9:13), that God does NOT love everybody?? Again, it is written, "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives" (Heb. 12:6). Does not this verse teach that God's love is restricted to the members of His own family? If He loves all men without exception, then the distinction and limitation here mentioned is quite meaningless. Finally, we would ask, is it conceivable that God will love the dammed in the Lake of Fire? Yet, if He loves them now,He will do so then, seeing that His love knows no change. He is "without variableness or shadow of turning" (James 1:17).
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 2)
Does God Love Everyone? # 1
1. John 3:16
2. 2 Peter 3:9
3. The Holy Spirit Will Not Be Resisted
4. Why Preach to Every Creature?
One of the most popular beliefs of the day is that God loves everybody, and the very fact that it is so popular with all classes ought to be enough to arouse the suspicions of those who are subject to the Word of Truth. God's love toward all His creatures is the fundamental and favorite tenet of Universalists, Unitarians, and Theosophists, Christian Scientists, Spiritualists, Russellites, etc. No matter how a man may live in open defiance of Heaven, with no concern whatever for his soul's eternal interests, still less for God's glory, dying perhaps with an oath on his lips - notwithstanding, God loves him, we are told. So widely has this dogma been proclaimed, and so comforting is it to the heart which is at enmity with God - we have little hope of convincing many of their error. That God loves everybody is, we may say, quite a modern belief. The writings of the church fathers, the Reformers, or the Puritans will (we believe) be searched in vain for any such concept. Perhaps the late D. L. Moody - captivated by Drummond's The Great Thing in the World - did more than anyone else in the last century to popularize this concept. It has been customary to say God loves the sinner though He hates his sin. But that is a meaningless distinction. What is there in a sinner but sin? Is it not true that his "whole head is sick" and his "whole heart faint," and that "from the sole of the foot even unto the head there is no soundness" in him? (Isaiah 1:5-6). Is it true that God loves the one who is despising and rejecting His blessed Son? God is Light as well as Love, and therefore His love must be a holy love.
To tell the Christ-rejecter that God loves him is to cauterize his conscience, as well as to afford him a sense of security in his sins. The fact is, the love of God is a truth for the saints only, and to present it to the enemies of God is to take the children's bread and cast it to the dogs (Matt. 15:26). With the exception of John 3:16, not once in the four Gospels do we read of the Lord Jesus, the perfect teacher, telling sinners that God loves them! In the book of Acts, which records the evangelistic labors and messages of the apostles, God's love is never referred to at all! But when we come to the Epistles, which are addressed to the saints, we have a full presentation of this precious truth: God's love for His own. Let us seek to rightly divide the Word of God and then we shall not be found taking truths which are addressed to believers and misapplying them to unbelievers. That which sinners need to have brought before them is the ineffable holiness, the exacting righteousness, the inflexible justice, and the terrible wrath of God.
Risking the danger of being misunderstood, let us say - and we wish we could say it to every evangelist and preacher in the country - there is far too much presenting of Christ to sinners today, and far too little showing sinners their need of Christ, that is, their absolutely ruined and lost condition, their imminent and awful danger of suffering the wrath to come, the fearful guilt resting upon them in the sight of God. To present Christ to those who have never been shown their need of Him, seems to us to be guilty of casting pearls before swine (Matt. 7:6). If it be true that God loves every member of the human family, then why did our Lord tell His disciples, "He who has My commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves Me: and he who loves Me shall be loved of My Father...If a man love me, he will keep My words: and My Father will love him" (John 14:21, 23)? Why say, "He that loves Me shall be loved of My Father," if the Father loves everybody?? The same limitation is found in Prov. 8:17: "I love them that love Me."
Again we read, "You hate all workers of iniquity" - not merely the works of iniquity. Here then is a flat repudiation of present teaching that God hates sin but loves the sinner: Scripture says, "You hate all workers of iniquity" (Psalm 5:5)! "God is angry with the wicked every day" (Psalm 7:11). "He who believes not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God" - not "shall abide," but even now - "abides on him" (John 3:36). Can God "love" the one on whom His "wrath" abides? Again, is it not evident that the words, "The love of God which is in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:39), mark a limitation, both in the sphere and objects, of His love? Again, is it not plain from the words, "Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated" (Romans 9:13), that God does NOT love everybody?? Again, it is written, "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives" (Heb. 12:6). Does not this verse teach that God's love is restricted to the members of His own family? If He loves all men without exception, then the distinction and limitation here mentioned is quite meaningless. Finally, we would ask, is it conceivable that God will love the dammed in the Lake of Fire? Yet, if He loves them now,He will do so then, seeing that His love knows no change. He is "without variableness or shadow of turning" (James 1:17).
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 2)
Evangelical Obedience # 4
Evangelical Obedience # 4
What is yet more to the point in connection with our immediate subject, under the New Covenant - provision has been made for the failures of its subjects. God does not reject their obedience because it is faulty - but graciously accepts the same when it is prompted by submission to His authority, is performed by faith, is urged by love, and is done with sincerity of purpose and endeavor.
Sin has disabled us from an exact keeping of God's commandments - but He approves of what issues from an upright heart and which sincerely seeks to please Him. We are bidden to "have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably (not flawlessly!) with reverence and godly fear" (Heb. 12:28). While God still justly requires from us a perfect and perpetual obedience, nevertheless, He is graciously pleased to receive and own genuine efforts to conform to His will. He does so because of the merits of Christ and His continued mediation on our behalf. Having accepted our persons, He also accepts our love-offerings - note the order in Genesis 4:4. We present spiritual sacrifices unto Him, and they are "acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 2:5).
That we are here propounding no new and dangerous error will be seen from the following quotations: "Notwithstanding, the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works are also accepted in Him: not as though they were in this life wholly unblamably and unreproveable in God's sight - but that He, looking upon them in His Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, though accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections" - (The Westminister Confession of Faith).
"I call it Gospel obedience, not that it differs in substance from that required by the Law, which enjoins us to love the Lord our God with all our hearts - but that it moves upon principles, and is carried on unto ends, revealed only in the Gospel" (John Owen).
According to the modification of the new covenant, "God, out of His love and mercy in Christ Jesus, accepts of such a measure of love and obedience as answers to the measure of sanctification received" (Thomas Manton).
Though the above quotations are far from being divinely inspired - and therefore, are without any binding authority upon the children of God - nevertheless they are from men who were deeply taught and much used by the Holy Spirit, and thus, are deserving of our serious and prayerful attention. While the Christian is forbidden to call any man "father" - that is far from signifying that he should despise such teachers. There is no Antinomian laxity in the above citations - but a holy balance such as is scarcely ever found in the ministry of our day.
Above, we pointed out that God justly requires a perfect obedience from all rational creatures, and that under no circumstances will He lower His demand. Every regenerate (born again) soul concurs with God's holy claim, and deeply lament his inability to meet that claim. We also affirmed that under the moderation of the New Covenant constitution, that God is graciously pleased to accept and approve of an obedience from His people, which - though sincerely desiring and endeavoring to measure up to His perfect standard - is, through their remaining corruptions and infirmities, a very defective one; and that He does so without any reflection upon His honor.
We followed that brief averment by giving excerpts from some of the Puritans - the number of which might easily be multiplied - not for the purpose of buttressing our own teaching - but in order that it might be seen that we are not advancing here any dangerous or strange doctrine. Nevertheless, the majority of our readers will require something from an infinitely higher authority than that on which to rest their faith; and to it, we now turn.
In Genesis 26:5, we find the Lord declaring: "Because Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept my charge, My commandments, my statutes, and My laws." Yet he did not do so perfectly, for he was a man "subject to like passions as we are"; nevertheless, God owned his obedience, and, as the context there shows, rewarded him for the same. Sincere obedience, though it be not sinless, is acceptable unto God; if it were not, then it would be impossible for any of His children to perform a single act in this life which was pleasing in His sight. Not only so - but many statements made in the Scriptures concerning saints would be quite unintelligible to us - statements which oblige us to believe that God receives the hearty - yet imperfect, endeavors of His people; yes, that He attributes unto the same a far higher quality than they do. Thus, He said of Job, "That man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil" (Job 1:1): yet, as we read all that is recorded of him, it soon becomes apparent that he - like ourselves - was "compassed with infirmity" (Heb. 5:2).
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 5)
What is yet more to the point in connection with our immediate subject, under the New Covenant - provision has been made for the failures of its subjects. God does not reject their obedience because it is faulty - but graciously accepts the same when it is prompted by submission to His authority, is performed by faith, is urged by love, and is done with sincerity of purpose and endeavor.
Sin has disabled us from an exact keeping of God's commandments - but He approves of what issues from an upright heart and which sincerely seeks to please Him. We are bidden to "have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably (not flawlessly!) with reverence and godly fear" (Heb. 12:28). While God still justly requires from us a perfect and perpetual obedience, nevertheless, He is graciously pleased to receive and own genuine efforts to conform to His will. He does so because of the merits of Christ and His continued mediation on our behalf. Having accepted our persons, He also accepts our love-offerings - note the order in Genesis 4:4. We present spiritual sacrifices unto Him, and they are "acceptable to God by Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 2:5).
That we are here propounding no new and dangerous error will be seen from the following quotations: "Notwithstanding, the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works are also accepted in Him: not as though they were in this life wholly unblamably and unreproveable in God's sight - but that He, looking upon them in His Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, though accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections" - (The Westminister Confession of Faith).
"I call it Gospel obedience, not that it differs in substance from that required by the Law, which enjoins us to love the Lord our God with all our hearts - but that it moves upon principles, and is carried on unto ends, revealed only in the Gospel" (John Owen).
According to the modification of the new covenant, "God, out of His love and mercy in Christ Jesus, accepts of such a measure of love and obedience as answers to the measure of sanctification received" (Thomas Manton).
Though the above quotations are far from being divinely inspired - and therefore, are without any binding authority upon the children of God - nevertheless they are from men who were deeply taught and much used by the Holy Spirit, and thus, are deserving of our serious and prayerful attention. While the Christian is forbidden to call any man "father" - that is far from signifying that he should despise such teachers. There is no Antinomian laxity in the above citations - but a holy balance such as is scarcely ever found in the ministry of our day.
Above, we pointed out that God justly requires a perfect obedience from all rational creatures, and that under no circumstances will He lower His demand. Every regenerate (born again) soul concurs with God's holy claim, and deeply lament his inability to meet that claim. We also affirmed that under the moderation of the New Covenant constitution, that God is graciously pleased to accept and approve of an obedience from His people, which - though sincerely desiring and endeavoring to measure up to His perfect standard - is, through their remaining corruptions and infirmities, a very defective one; and that He does so without any reflection upon His honor.
We followed that brief averment by giving excerpts from some of the Puritans - the number of which might easily be multiplied - not for the purpose of buttressing our own teaching - but in order that it might be seen that we are not advancing here any dangerous or strange doctrine. Nevertheless, the majority of our readers will require something from an infinitely higher authority than that on which to rest their faith; and to it, we now turn.
In Genesis 26:5, we find the Lord declaring: "Because Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept my charge, My commandments, my statutes, and My laws." Yet he did not do so perfectly, for he was a man "subject to like passions as we are"; nevertheless, God owned his obedience, and, as the context there shows, rewarded him for the same. Sincere obedience, though it be not sinless, is acceptable unto God; if it were not, then it would be impossible for any of His children to perform a single act in this life which was pleasing in His sight. Not only so - but many statements made in the Scriptures concerning saints would be quite unintelligible to us - statements which oblige us to believe that God receives the hearty - yet imperfect, endeavors of His people; yes, that He attributes unto the same a far higher quality than they do. Thus, He said of Job, "That man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil" (Job 1:1): yet, as we read all that is recorded of him, it soon becomes apparent that he - like ourselves - was "compassed with infirmity" (Heb. 5:2).
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 5)
Saturday, September 7, 2019
The Eternal Duration of Hell's Torments # 2
The Eternal Duration of Hell's Torments # 2
3. Again there is an actual eternity in man's sin, for though death puts an end to their lives, it does not put an end to their sins - for hell is as full of sin as of suffering. They sin even in hell, even when under the wrath of God. Their sin-nature remains forever - and they continue sinner forever. Therefore it is just with God that there should be an everlasting continuance of the punishment.
Here is the greatest misery of the damned - that is without redemption, or hope, or aid, forever!
4. It is just with God that the sinner should be punished with everlasting misery - because he chooses it, refusing everlasting felicity. The purchase our Lord made by His death, is an everlasting blessedness, and God by His infallible promise assures us that all who sincerely believe and obey Him, shall be rewarded with Heaven forever. For all the wages of God in the last day, whether of love to the saints, or punishment to the wicked - are everlasting and run into eternity.
Now if God's tender and promises of everlasting glory are despised - then there is nothing left to be the sinner's portion, but everlasting misery. It is the fruit of his own choice, for it is certain that God will give to every man in the next world, that which he chooses in this. "I have set before you everlasting life, therefore choose life, that you may live!" He who chooses life shall have it. he who does not choose life, but willingly cleaves to his lusts - he in the outcome chooses death and hell, and he shall have it.
He who chooses sin, chooses it with all its attendants, misery and wrath, for they cannot be separated from it. Therefore, if he chooses sin for himself - it is just that he should have the consequence of his own choice.
He who chooses God for his portion, shall forever enjoy Him. Is it not then just, that he who chooses misery - should forever lie under it?
Many say to God here, "Depart from us. We do not desire the knowledge of your ways!" it is just that God should say to such then, "Depart from Me into everlasting fire!"
There can be no complaint in hell against God, where the punishment, however so great it is, is nothing else but the fruit of a man's own choice. For he who chooses sin as his way, does by consequence choose sin's end - which is eternal hell and misery. If he falls into the hands of the living God - then he can blame none but himself. It is the fruit of his own choice!
Here we see the folly of lost sinners. What greater folly can any be guilty of, than to indulge sin, and gratify lust, and neglect God and Christ, and all the means of grace? Is it not folly for a man to make himself eternally wretched and miserable by his own choice? This shall be the woe of the damned, that they chose it!
But you will say, did any man ever choose to be miserable? Yes, thousands, and tens of thousands - every man who knows there is a God, and that he has an immortal soul, and must give a final account to God for all that he does in this world. He knows that sin will end in eternal damnation - and yet indulges in sin and lust! Therefore he chooses to perish and to be miserable forever. He loves hell and death (Prov. 8:36). "All those who hate Me, love death." They love their sins and lusts and pleasures, that God has entailed death on, and therefore are said to love death.
To cure the folly of these mischiefs, it is good to counterbalance our sinful desires with frequent thoughts of eternal realities.
I am not to live always. I may be in another world, before another Lord's Day comes. I must appear before the eternal God, to give an account of all that I have done in the flesh. Can I dwell with everlasting burnings? Can I endure the endless wrath of incensed justice? Think of this, when you are about to please the flesh and gratify your lusts: Can I bear the wrath of God forever?
O! then, that you would endeavor to cure your present prevailing lusts, with the frequent forethoughts of the heat of the everlasting wrath of God! "For it is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!"
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life" (Matthew 25:46).
~Matthew Mead~
(The End)
3. Again there is an actual eternity in man's sin, for though death puts an end to their lives, it does not put an end to their sins - for hell is as full of sin as of suffering. They sin even in hell, even when under the wrath of God. Their sin-nature remains forever - and they continue sinner forever. Therefore it is just with God that there should be an everlasting continuance of the punishment.
Here is the greatest misery of the damned - that is without redemption, or hope, or aid, forever!
4. It is just with God that the sinner should be punished with everlasting misery - because he chooses it, refusing everlasting felicity. The purchase our Lord made by His death, is an everlasting blessedness, and God by His infallible promise assures us that all who sincerely believe and obey Him, shall be rewarded with Heaven forever. For all the wages of God in the last day, whether of love to the saints, or punishment to the wicked - are everlasting and run into eternity.
Now if God's tender and promises of everlasting glory are despised - then there is nothing left to be the sinner's portion, but everlasting misery. It is the fruit of his own choice, for it is certain that God will give to every man in the next world, that which he chooses in this. "I have set before you everlasting life, therefore choose life, that you may live!" He who chooses life shall have it. he who does not choose life, but willingly cleaves to his lusts - he in the outcome chooses death and hell, and he shall have it.
He who chooses sin, chooses it with all its attendants, misery and wrath, for they cannot be separated from it. Therefore, if he chooses sin for himself - it is just that he should have the consequence of his own choice.
He who chooses God for his portion, shall forever enjoy Him. Is it not then just, that he who chooses misery - should forever lie under it?
Many say to God here, "Depart from us. We do not desire the knowledge of your ways!" it is just that God should say to such then, "Depart from Me into everlasting fire!"
There can be no complaint in hell against God, where the punishment, however so great it is, is nothing else but the fruit of a man's own choice. For he who chooses sin as his way, does by consequence choose sin's end - which is eternal hell and misery. If he falls into the hands of the living God - then he can blame none but himself. It is the fruit of his own choice!
Here we see the folly of lost sinners. What greater folly can any be guilty of, than to indulge sin, and gratify lust, and neglect God and Christ, and all the means of grace? Is it not folly for a man to make himself eternally wretched and miserable by his own choice? This shall be the woe of the damned, that they chose it!
But you will say, did any man ever choose to be miserable? Yes, thousands, and tens of thousands - every man who knows there is a God, and that he has an immortal soul, and must give a final account to God for all that he does in this world. He knows that sin will end in eternal damnation - and yet indulges in sin and lust! Therefore he chooses to perish and to be miserable forever. He loves hell and death (Prov. 8:36). "All those who hate Me, love death." They love their sins and lusts and pleasures, that God has entailed death on, and therefore are said to love death.
To cure the folly of these mischiefs, it is good to counterbalance our sinful desires with frequent thoughts of eternal realities.
I am not to live always. I may be in another world, before another Lord's Day comes. I must appear before the eternal God, to give an account of all that I have done in the flesh. Can I dwell with everlasting burnings? Can I endure the endless wrath of incensed justice? Think of this, when you are about to please the flesh and gratify your lusts: Can I bear the wrath of God forever?
O! then, that you would endeavor to cure your present prevailing lusts, with the frequent forethoughts of the heat of the everlasting wrath of God! "For it is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!"
"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life" (Matthew 25:46).
~Matthew Mead~
(The End)
Evangelical Obedience # 3
Evangelical Obedience # 3
Love to God and our neighbor is indeed the great duty enjoined by Law (Deu. 6:5; Lev. 19:18) and the Gospel alike (Gal. 5:13-14); yet it is a love which manifests itself by a hearty obedience (2 John 6). Though Christ delivers from the curse of the Law - yet not from its precepts: "That we being delivered out of the hand of our (spiritual) enemies might serve Him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before Him, all the days of our life" (Luke 1:74-75).
Every privilege of the Gospel entails an added obligation upon its recipient. As creatures - it is our bounden duty to be in entire subjection to our Creator. As new creatures in Christ - it doubly behooves us to serve God cheerfully. It is a great mistake to suppose that grace sets aside the claims of righteousness, or that the Law of God demands less from the saved than it does from the unsaved. Nowhere are the high demands of God set forth more fully and forcibly, than in the epistles addressed to the saints. Take these as samples: "But as He who has called you is Holy - so be holy in all manner of conversation" (1 Pet. 1:15; "That you might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God" (Col. 1:10).
But right here, a formidable difficulty presents itself. On the one hand, the renewed soul clearly perceives the necessity and propriety of such a standard being set before him, and cordially acquiesces therein; yet on the other hand, he has to acknowledge, "to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good, I find not" (Romans 7:18). Though it is his deepest longing to measure up fully to the divine standard - yet he is incapable of doing so; and though he cries earnestly unto God for enabling grace and unquestionably receives no little assistance from Him - yet at the close of this life, his desire remains far from being realized.
Now the healthy Christian is deeply exercised over this, and instead of excusing his failures cries, "O that my ways were directed to keep your statutes!" (Psalm 119:5). But that is only half of the problem, and the least difficult half at that. The other half is: "How is it possible for a holy God to accept and approve of imperfect obedience from His children? That He will not lower His standard to the level of their infirmities, is clear from the passages quoted above; yet that He does both graciously receive and reward their faulty performances is equally plain from other verses. In what has just been stated, we discover one of the fundamental differences between the Covenants of Works and Grace.
Under the Covenant of Works - a rigorous and inflexible demand was made for perfect and perpetual conformity to God's Law, and no allowance or relief was afforded for the slightest infraction of it. A single default, the least failure - was reckoned guilty of breaking all the commandments (James 2:10) - for not only are they, like so many links in the same chain, a strict unit - but the authority of the Lawgiver behind them was flouted. Nor was any provision made for the recovery of such a one. The constitution under which the first man - and the whole human race in him - was placed, was without any mediator or sacrifice; and no matter how deep his remorse, or what resolutions of amendment he made - the transgressor lay under the inexorable sentence: "soul that sins - it shall die!" (Ezekiel 18:4, 20), for God will by no means clear the guilty. Moreover, under the first covenant, God provided no special grace to enable its subjects to meet His requirements. He made man in His own image, and pronounced him "very good," and then left him to his native and created strength. Finally, under that covenant, man was required to yield obedience in order to his justification - for upon his compliance, he was entitled unto a reward.
Now, under the Covenant of Grace - everything is the very opposite of that which obtained under the Covenant of Works. Complete subordination to the divine will is indeed required of us - yet not in order to our justification before - and acceptance with God. Instead, the moment we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and place our whole dependence on the sufficiency of His sacrifice - His perfect obedience is reckoned to our account; and God pronounces us righteous in the high court of heaven, and we are entitled to the reward of His Law. Consequently, our subsequent obedience is rendered neither under threat of damnation, nor from a mercenary spirit - but out of gratitude for our deliverance from the wrath to come, and because of our acceptance in the Beloved.
Nor are we left to our own strength - or rather, weakness. God does not barely command us, and then leave us to ourselves; but "works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phi. 2:13). He communicates to us His blessed Spirit and makes available that fullness of grace and truth which there is in Christ our Head - for He is not only a Head of authority - but also of efficacious influence: "From whom the whole body (the Church) fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part" (Eph. 4:16).
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 4)
Love to God and our neighbor is indeed the great duty enjoined by Law (Deu. 6:5; Lev. 19:18) and the Gospel alike (Gal. 5:13-14); yet it is a love which manifests itself by a hearty obedience (2 John 6). Though Christ delivers from the curse of the Law - yet not from its precepts: "That we being delivered out of the hand of our (spiritual) enemies might serve Him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before Him, all the days of our life" (Luke 1:74-75).
Every privilege of the Gospel entails an added obligation upon its recipient. As creatures - it is our bounden duty to be in entire subjection to our Creator. As new creatures in Christ - it doubly behooves us to serve God cheerfully. It is a great mistake to suppose that grace sets aside the claims of righteousness, or that the Law of God demands less from the saved than it does from the unsaved. Nowhere are the high demands of God set forth more fully and forcibly, than in the epistles addressed to the saints. Take these as samples: "But as He who has called you is Holy - so be holy in all manner of conversation" (1 Pet. 1:15; "That you might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God" (Col. 1:10).
But right here, a formidable difficulty presents itself. On the one hand, the renewed soul clearly perceives the necessity and propriety of such a standard being set before him, and cordially acquiesces therein; yet on the other hand, he has to acknowledge, "to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good, I find not" (Romans 7:18). Though it is his deepest longing to measure up fully to the divine standard - yet he is incapable of doing so; and though he cries earnestly unto God for enabling grace and unquestionably receives no little assistance from Him - yet at the close of this life, his desire remains far from being realized.
Now the healthy Christian is deeply exercised over this, and instead of excusing his failures cries, "O that my ways were directed to keep your statutes!" (Psalm 119:5). But that is only half of the problem, and the least difficult half at that. The other half is: "How is it possible for a holy God to accept and approve of imperfect obedience from His children? That He will not lower His standard to the level of their infirmities, is clear from the passages quoted above; yet that He does both graciously receive and reward their faulty performances is equally plain from other verses. In what has just been stated, we discover one of the fundamental differences between the Covenants of Works and Grace.
Under the Covenant of Works - a rigorous and inflexible demand was made for perfect and perpetual conformity to God's Law, and no allowance or relief was afforded for the slightest infraction of it. A single default, the least failure - was reckoned guilty of breaking all the commandments (James 2:10) - for not only are they, like so many links in the same chain, a strict unit - but the authority of the Lawgiver behind them was flouted. Nor was any provision made for the recovery of such a one. The constitution under which the first man - and the whole human race in him - was placed, was without any mediator or sacrifice; and no matter how deep his remorse, or what resolutions of amendment he made - the transgressor lay under the inexorable sentence: "soul that sins - it shall die!" (Ezekiel 18:4, 20), for God will by no means clear the guilty. Moreover, under the first covenant, God provided no special grace to enable its subjects to meet His requirements. He made man in His own image, and pronounced him "very good," and then left him to his native and created strength. Finally, under that covenant, man was required to yield obedience in order to his justification - for upon his compliance, he was entitled unto a reward.
Now, under the Covenant of Grace - everything is the very opposite of that which obtained under the Covenant of Works. Complete subordination to the divine will is indeed required of us - yet not in order to our justification before - and acceptance with God. Instead, the moment we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and place our whole dependence on the sufficiency of His sacrifice - His perfect obedience is reckoned to our account; and God pronounces us righteous in the high court of heaven, and we are entitled to the reward of His Law. Consequently, our subsequent obedience is rendered neither under threat of damnation, nor from a mercenary spirit - but out of gratitude for our deliverance from the wrath to come, and because of our acceptance in the Beloved.
Nor are we left to our own strength - or rather, weakness. God does not barely command us, and then leave us to ourselves; but "works in us both to will and to do of His good pleasure" (Phi. 2:13). He communicates to us His blessed Spirit and makes available that fullness of grace and truth which there is in Christ our Head - for He is not only a Head of authority - but also of efficacious influence: "From whom the whole body (the Church) fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part" (Eph. 4:16).
~A. W. Pink~
(continued with # 4)
Saturday, August 31, 2019
The Eternal Duration of Hell's Torments # 1
The Eternal Duration of Hell's Torments # 1
"It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!" (Hebrews 10:31).
How can it be consistent with the justice and righteousness of God to punish temporal sinning, with everlasting suffering, to inflict eternal vengeance, for momentary offences, to throw a sinner into unending misery, for committing a few sins here which quickly have an end?
This has made some conclude against the eternal duration of hell's torments - as if God were so merciful that He would not let them lie under His wrath forever. But I answer this with the Apostle, "Is God unjust in bringing His wrath on us? Certainly not!" (Romans 3:5-6). God is holy, just, and righteous - even when He punishes momentary offenses with everlasting torments. And this will appear, by considering the following:
1. It is necessary for the governing of the world, that the penalty should be so stated. It is necessary for the preserving the authority of God's law in its full force and vigor, and to render it more solemn and dreadful. The design of God is to have the punishment so great as to check all the temptations to sin which a man can have. There is in man since the fall, such a propensity to sensual things, that, without this fear of hell, nothing is able to keep it down. Fleshly lusts are so pleasing to corrupt nature, that they need to be checked with the severest threatenings. Therefore, God has told us beforehand, "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient!" (Eph. 5:6).
God wisely balances the sinner's delights with the fear of punishment, that by setting eternal pains against momentary pleasures, we may the better escape temptation. The pleasures of sin, which are but for a season - entail on us torments which are eternal!
God has wisely left to our own choice whether we will have the passing pleasures of sin here on earth - or those eternal pleasures which come hereafter, as a reward of grace. Things at hand will far more prevail than things to come, if those things to come are not considerably greater. In the wisdom of God, those who work out their salvation with fear and trembling here, should have pleasures at the right hand of God for evermore - and those who will have their sinful pleasures here, should have everlasting misery in the eternal world.
2. Common reason allows that there ought to be a proportion between the nature of the offense, and the quality of the punishment. Now sin against God is such an immense thing that nothing less than an everlasting punishment can be equivalent to it. This will be plain, if you consider the following:
A. The greatness of the majesty against which sin is committed. Every sin is a base derogating of God, and this is enough to make the guilt of it infinite - because it is done against an infinite God, and therefore it deserves an infinite punishment. Now a finite creature cannot bear an infinite punishment - therefore God makes the punishment infinite in regard of continuance. The creature cannot pay the whole debt at once - therefore he must be paying it forever!
B. There is an eternity in sin, not only as being committed against an eternal God, and as deserving eternal punishment. There is a further eternity in sin - with respect to the disposition and will of the sinner, which is so tied in sin, that if the sinner should live forever - then he would sin forever. He is never weary of sin. He desires to live here always, that he may always enjoy his lusts. Though he lives ever so long - yet he never thinks it is time to be judged by God.
To what a great age the men of the old world lived - eight or nine hundred years, and yet they made no other use of it than to indulge their lusts! Every sinner would certainly go on in sin to the world's end, if death did not hinder him. His desire and will is to sin everlastingly - and he would do so if he could!
As in the case of duty, so in the case of sin - God looks more at the will than the deed. What hinders a sinner from being a sinner still, who does not leave sin, until sin leaves him? He who would sin forever if he could - he continues to sin in willing to sin.
Is it not just, that those who if they had lived forever, would never have left sinning - should never cease suffering? And is it not just that their eternal obstinacy should be punished with an everlasting punishment?
~Matthew Mead~
(continued with # 2)
"It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God!" (Hebrews 10:31).
How can it be consistent with the justice and righteousness of God to punish temporal sinning, with everlasting suffering, to inflict eternal vengeance, for momentary offences, to throw a sinner into unending misery, for committing a few sins here which quickly have an end?
This has made some conclude against the eternal duration of hell's torments - as if God were so merciful that He would not let them lie under His wrath forever. But I answer this with the Apostle, "Is God unjust in bringing His wrath on us? Certainly not!" (Romans 3:5-6). God is holy, just, and righteous - even when He punishes momentary offenses with everlasting torments. And this will appear, by considering the following:
1. It is necessary for the governing of the world, that the penalty should be so stated. It is necessary for the preserving the authority of God's law in its full force and vigor, and to render it more solemn and dreadful. The design of God is to have the punishment so great as to check all the temptations to sin which a man can have. There is in man since the fall, such a propensity to sensual things, that, without this fear of hell, nothing is able to keep it down. Fleshly lusts are so pleasing to corrupt nature, that they need to be checked with the severest threatenings. Therefore, God has told us beforehand, "Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient!" (Eph. 5:6).
God wisely balances the sinner's delights with the fear of punishment, that by setting eternal pains against momentary pleasures, we may the better escape temptation. The pleasures of sin, which are but for a season - entail on us torments which are eternal!
God has wisely left to our own choice whether we will have the passing pleasures of sin here on earth - or those eternal pleasures which come hereafter, as a reward of grace. Things at hand will far more prevail than things to come, if those things to come are not considerably greater. In the wisdom of God, those who work out their salvation with fear and trembling here, should have pleasures at the right hand of God for evermore - and those who will have their sinful pleasures here, should have everlasting misery in the eternal world.
2. Common reason allows that there ought to be a proportion between the nature of the offense, and the quality of the punishment. Now sin against God is such an immense thing that nothing less than an everlasting punishment can be equivalent to it. This will be plain, if you consider the following:
A. The greatness of the majesty against which sin is committed. Every sin is a base derogating of God, and this is enough to make the guilt of it infinite - because it is done against an infinite God, and therefore it deserves an infinite punishment. Now a finite creature cannot bear an infinite punishment - therefore God makes the punishment infinite in regard of continuance. The creature cannot pay the whole debt at once - therefore he must be paying it forever!
B. There is an eternity in sin, not only as being committed against an eternal God, and as deserving eternal punishment. There is a further eternity in sin - with respect to the disposition and will of the sinner, which is so tied in sin, that if the sinner should live forever - then he would sin forever. He is never weary of sin. He desires to live here always, that he may always enjoy his lusts. Though he lives ever so long - yet he never thinks it is time to be judged by God.
To what a great age the men of the old world lived - eight or nine hundred years, and yet they made no other use of it than to indulge their lusts! Every sinner would certainly go on in sin to the world's end, if death did not hinder him. His desire and will is to sin everlastingly - and he would do so if he could!
As in the case of duty, so in the case of sin - God looks more at the will than the deed. What hinders a sinner from being a sinner still, who does not leave sin, until sin leaves him? He who would sin forever if he could - he continues to sin in willing to sin.
Is it not just, that those who if they had lived forever, would never have left sinning - should never cease suffering? And is it not just that their eternal obstinacy should be punished with an everlasting punishment?
~Matthew Mead~
(continued with # 2)
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